Comment On The Silver Scream

What movie was it?

It doesn't matter how big the company is or how much money they have to throw at it - management ignorance will still screw it all up.

Ahh profesionals uses unprofesionals system builded by "true" proffesionals

RB:

It doesn't matter how big the company is or how much money they have to throw at it - management ignorance will still screw it all up.

Yp. so true.

I can't even imagine the "hole picture"

At times like these, I want to rip my brain out, put it inside the producer's head, show him exactly why the crap happened, and then put my brain back in my head.

It would be less painful, less screamful, and more effective.

So you're blaming RedHat and Home Edition ?

not quite:

So you're blaming RedHat and Home Edition ?

both + Managment

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

not quite:

So you're blaming RedHat and Home Edition ?

Yes were blaming red hat and home edition... the managements ignorance and incompetence was totally nothing to do with it..</sarcasm>

The should of had better planning from the start and listen to the guy they hired.

Can't you just turn off all those unnecessary boot processes?

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

not quite:

So you're blaming RedHat and Home Edition ?

Well, I think we're blaming the vendor that provided this lackluster Frankenstein of a rig and the management team that bought it and rolled with it despite clear problems and much protesting from the resdent IT guy.

Duh... and what's the point in buying a _professional grade system_? That you have to configure it? WTF!

greg:

Can't you just turn off all those unnecessary boot processes?

Sure, and tweak a few other things -- get a proper RAID setup in place, yada yada. In the end, OP suggested just
as much, without the rental fees.

TRWTF is the use of Cygwin: I bet xming, which works natively, would be just fine. And it's either free for a slightly outdated version, or a small donation gives you the latest and the greatest.

snoofle:

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

I admit, however, I haven't actually used a Mac since I got out of high school. Apparently that's the last time the "Mac vs. PC" commercial writers last used a PC. So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

This is exactly why management should never be involved in the purchasing process, except when a document says, "Sign Here".

Am I the only one who thinks that Phil needs to start his own business?!? He's got the best kind of competition: the kind that puts out a shoddy product that they don't support well.

not quite:

So you're blaming RedHat and Home Edition ?

XP Home Edition is the 'unicycle' on the Information Super Highway. Most experienced drivers aren't that surprised when it becomes 'road kill'.

After reading the hardware description, I'm frankly surprised that they didn't try and substitute an XBox hub or router for some of the networking gear - after all it *IS* a Microsoft product, and everyone knows professionals use Microsoft.

They needed an insurable setup that the completion guarantors would accept, easy set-up/tear-down for constant moving, and quick and simple operaion.

The real WTF, a feature article with mistakes.

The WTF in a nutshell: Assuming that an outside vendor (with lots of salespeople between you and them) is more professional than the presumably professional person that you hired and interact with regularly.

Erzengel:

snoofle:

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

I admit, however, I haven't actually used a Mac since I got out of high school. Apparently that's the last time the "Mac vs. PC" commercial writers last used a PC. So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

I've had an iMac running Leopard for about a year - it's only crashed twice - both times due to installing Leopard over Tiger instead of a clean install, and both times, it just went right into a reboot - no BSOD or equivalent.

I reboot it once in a while, but that's just my habit rather than necessity.

Erzengel:

snoofle:

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

I admit, however, I haven't actually used a Mac since I got out of high school. Apparently that's the last time the "Mac vs. PC" commercial writers last used a PC. So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

Umm, yeah, you need to get out more. Its been 7 and a half YEARS since it gave just the bomb. Now, when an application crashes it doesn't take down the whole enchilada. And when it does, the panic log is available (just like the application crash is available too).

Erzengel:

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

Yes Macs crash, but you need to go back to before OS X to get the error screens you describe.


On topic, when you see management paving the road to disaster, how about producing a written warning, having someone sign it that they have read and understood that the solution they're pushing through might be problematic?
Of course it can also backlash, if it in the end worked fine they'd have paper on you misjudging the situation...

When you *know* a project is destined to go as badly as this one, and you don't have the guts to say "could you please sign this form that says I warned you about all that can go wrong", you deserve what you get.

Most of our communication here at work is via eMail, and in fact I've in the past gone out of my way to have specific conversation via eMail just so that I could archive it and point to it later. It's called covering your a**, and it's something this guy needs to learn quickly. If it can't be done via eMail, then a quick little note with a signature will do it.

And if the person you need to sign it (the producer in this case) won't sign it, then you have to have the guts to leave the situation. Either that or you get what you get and you live with it. I understand, especially now, leaving a situation like that on principal isn't easy... but at some point it's the right answer.

Zach Bora:

They needed an insurable setup that the completion guarantors would accept, easy set-up/tear-down for constant moving, and quick and simple operaion.

The real WTF, a feature article with mistakes.

Maybe the article was written on the FDR and since they were shooting a movie, there wasn't enough processsing left over to enable the spell checker.

I blame Phil for his utter failure to convince management, even after the problems with the "professional system" became apparent.

Good lord man, if you are going to bash the Mac, at least bash a current one.

You might as well be complaining that Windows 95 still runs on DOS.

Also, I've never managed to crash a OSX-based Mac unless it is due to buggy hardware drivers.

The Wilhelm scream is soooo much better than the silver scream.

I Have written software that coppies fieles. It is the fastest. 10 s/MB. it works on DOS. With FAT filesystem. Program crashes, freezes, no graphical interface. And it cost $99. This software is verry proffesioan.

notice: Author of this software is no responsible in any damage. e.g. File losses, curruptions.

Now who dares to try it?

Erzengel:

snoofle:

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

I admit, however, I haven't actually used a Mac since I got out of high school. Apparently that's the last time the "Mac vs. PC" commercial writers last used a PC. So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

Guess it would help if I quoted what my reply was in regards to.

I hope Phil realized his calling was to put together his own DFR setup and sell that. Sounds like a mint could be made.

Having his offer rejected, Phil just did all in his power to make the vendor's system look bad.

(No, I don't believe this for a second. But some managers would -- and would only believe it more strongly, if Phil had gone the "sign that you know its borked" route).

Agreed. The real WTF is that Phil failed to see an instant market opportunity here. Spend a bit of capital, build a system that doesn't suck, sell it as "Professional Enterprise Marketingspeakhere" grade quality. Make a fortune, retire to an island populated entirely with naked women.

Seriously, when you see a gap in the market, take advantage of it.

$35 million for a mostly-CGI film? Was it Cloverfield?

fzammetti:

And if the person you need to sign it (the producer in this case) won't sign it, then you have to have the guts to leave the situation. Either that or you get what you get and you live with it. I understand, especially now, leaving a situation like that on principal isn't easy... but at some point it's the right answer.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that in the film industry. Hollywood is a small town, and everyone talks to everyone.

If you try to pull a fast one like that on a producer, word will get around, and good luck getting hired. Being blamed for a couple hundred grand of budget overruns isn't as bad as it sounds; it happens all the time to a lot of people. That sort of thing is forgotten after the movie makes its millions back.

The other thing? Not so much.

What I would have done, having had my proposal rejected would have been to mortgage my house and built my solution anyway, and had it available if need be.

Then, come Monday morning and no COTS DFR, gone to the producer with it. "Your option to wait for COTS DFR is now costing you $5k/hr. Take a risk and use my ready to go/tested DFR and you don't waste that time. If and when the COTS DFR shows up, we start using that the next day, no loss. Worst case scenario is my DFR fails and anything captured so far has to be reshot; since you're waiting anyway, you have nothing to lose".

I'd gain by having something I could shop around as both 1) field shoot tested/proven and 2) much cheaper than COTS. :/
Even if the producer still wasn't willing to take a chance, I'd have something cheaper I could shop around to indie studios, TV stations etc.

Hell, if the original submitter is reading this, I know half a dozen friends who work in mid-tier and indie film production who'd slay for a $27,000 DFR. Email me, our people will do lunch.

Matt:

Erzengel:

snoofle:

Ryuzaki:

And now we know why many managaers use Macs, even THEY can't mess them up that badly.

No disrespect to the Macs, but never underestimate the sheer stupidity of an ignoramus [in]directly commanding a keyboard, regardless of how solid the underlying system might be.

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

I admit, however, I haven't actually used a Mac since I got out of high school. Apparently that's the last time the "Mac vs. PC" commercial writers last used a PC. So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

Umm, yeah, you need to get out more. Its been 7 and a half YEARS since it gave just the bomb. Now, when an application crashes it doesn't take down the whole enchilada. And when it does, the panic log is available (just like the application crash is available too).

Does no one remember the Sad Macintosh? I must be the only one who tried Mac Assembler. Apple did give hex codes to look up under it.

Do I understand that no one actually KNEW in advance what the vendor solution was? WTF (to coin a phrase)!

bsaksida:

I Have written software that coppies fieles. It is the fastest. 10 s/MB. it works on DOS. With FAT filesystem. Program crashes, freezes, no graphical interface. And it cost $99. This software is verry proffesioan.

notice: Author of this software is no responsible in any damage. e.g. File losses, curruptions.

Now who dares to try it?

Plz send me teh codez. URGENT!!!

APH:

Am I the only one who thinks that Phil needs to start his own business?!? He's got the best kind of competition: the kind that puts out a shoddy product that they don't support well.

I agree completely, yet I know it's incredibly hard to get started with something like that, against 'professional' aura competition. Marketing department = omg they're professional and have years of experience, use them instead of the much cheaper alternative.

whatever:

Duh... and what's the point in buying a _professional grade system_? That you have to configure it? WTF!

It's an embedded system - why would you have to configure it?

Niels:

Erzengel:

Indeed. Macs crash, I've seen it happen numerous times. The down side is, when a Mac crashes, it just shows just a little bomb giving no useful information. At least a Windows BSOD gives a code I can look up.

Yes Macs crash, but you need to go back to before OS X to get the error screens you describe.


On topic, when you see management paving the road to disaster, how about producing a written warning, having someone sign it that they have read and understood that the solution they're pushing through might be problematic?
Of course it can also backlash, if it in the end worked fine they'd have paper on you misjudging the situation...

Nah, you warned them about a potential pitfall that didn't occur.

Christopher:

APH:

Am I the only one who thinks that Phil needs to start his own business?!? He's got the best kind of competition: the kind that puts out a shoddy product that they don't support well.

I agree completely, yet I know it's incredibly hard to get started with something like that, against 'professional' aura competition. Marketing department = omg they're professional and have years of experience, use them instead of the much cheaper alternative.

Part of the problem is Phil's pricing structure. Cost to own less than half of the cost to rent the COTS solutions.

In the minds of many, inexpensive == amateur != professional

First off, he did NOT know it was a bad system ahead of time. He only knew it was more expensive so what was he supposed to have them sign? A letter saying the system they chose was more expensive?
I can also see the producers point, the system they went with was supposed to have been built by pros. If it fails they can charge back the leasing company for down time, and you can bet that was in any leasing contract.
Phil did the only thing he could do about the situation. But as meny have already pointed out he should have taken his concept and ran with it.

"Why the hell does this take you so long," the director shouted at Phil, "we're always waiting on you and your stupid recorder!"

At this point Phil should have replied "No, we're always waiting on the executive producer's stupid recorder. I proposed a different system, he overruled me".

Then let the director go to the executive producer.

If the director doesn't believe Phil, or the EP lies, then Phil just threatens to quit. And leave no-one else capable of getting the already recorded video.

Basically, Phil is critical. As such, he has power. He just needs to realise that, and use it.

hamster:

Good lord man, if you are going to bash the Mac, at least bash a current one.

You might as well be complaining that Windows 95 still runs on DOS.

Also, I've never managed to crash a OSX-based Mac unless it is due to buggy hardware drivers.

Windows crashes are also caused by buggy drivers. So what?

snoofle:

I've had an iMac running Leopard for about a year - it's only crashed twice - both times due to installing Leopard over Tiger instead of a clean install, and both times, it just went right into a reboot - no BSOD or equivalent.

I reboot it once in a while, but that's just my habit rather than necessity.

Same thing with Windows. By default is doesn't linger on BSOD screen but goes straight to reboot.

There's always a lot of Monday morning quarterbacks here. It would be impossible to tell, but I would love to see how many of these people would really be willing to either: A) Tell the director off and attempt to get him into a fight with the producer at the risk of being fired outright or B) Risk a lot of personal financial security to go out on their own and produce a digital recorder.

I'm sure there are other options for a digital recorder than the one they went with so I would guess the market isn't as bare as the story might have suggested.

Anyway, yes, it would have been nice to get people to sign things, get the producer in trouble, etc. but sometimes those things aren't possible in real life. Sometimes you have a job and you would like to keep having a job.

>>> top-to-bottom was completely myopic

This describes most systems built around linux. Linux lends itself well to systems building since it is easy to strip out things.

However after that, people build systems areound linux myopic-ly. E.g use a virtual sessions to run a cywin to run a poorly support freeware linux app to work-around a meta-problem ;)

Erzengel:

So has it changed? Do they actually give useful information when a problem inevitably occurs?

The CoreServices layer provides Crash Reporter which does this. How much information you witness during the actual crash will be based however on your configuration of it.



captcha == capio (i remember that drink)